“Transcendence is the connection with something wider; the world, the cosmos, nature, other fellow human beings, and doing good in this life.” — Dr Lindsay de Wal

When Dr Lindsay de Wal became the first non-religious head of chaplaincy in the NHS, she redefined what spiritual support can look like in modern healthcare. From sceptical colleagues to international media headlines, her appointment marked a turning point for inclusive pastoral care. In this personal conversation, Lindsay shares how she built a humanist framework for care grounded in deep listening, horizontal transcendence and unwavering compassion.

Show Notes
Guest Profile

"Transcendence is the connection with something wider; the world, the cosmos, nature, other fellow human beings, and doing good in this life"— Dr Lindsay De Wal

When Dr Lindsay De Wal became the first non-religious head of chaplaincy in the NHS, she redefined what spiritual support can look like in modern healthcare. From sceptical colleagues to international media headlines, her appointment marked a turning point for inclusive pastoral care.

In this powerful and personal conversation, Lindsay shares how she built a humanist framework for care grounded in deep listening, horizontal transcendence and unwavering compassion.

In This Episode

Why only 4% of hospital chaplaincy visits serve non-religious patients
How the Netherlands became a global leader in humanist pastoral care
What “horizontal transcendence” means—and why it matters in non-religious care
The art of active listening and the power of silence in emotional support
How to become a humanist pastoral carer—and why demand is growing fast
The rise of the Non-Religious Pastoral Support Network across the NHS

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Linktree: https://linktr.ee/Dr.LdW
UK Non‑religious Pastoral Support Network

Episode References:

Become a Pastoral Carer, UK Non-Religious Pastoral Support Network
The Development of Non-Religious Pastoral Support in the UK, Dr David Savage
History of The Netherlands Humanists Association, Humanistisch Verbond
Interview with Lindsay de Wal: UK’s First Humanist NHS Chaplain on Non-Religious Pastoral Care, The Humanist

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Lindsay de Wal

Humanist Chaplain, Author & Director of Existential Care

Dr Lindsay de Wal is an accredited humanist chaplain, humanist celebrant, trained counsellor and humanistic coach, renowned for her pioneering work in inclusive pastoral care. As the first humanist appointed Head of Chaplaincy in the UK, her appointment made national and international headlines, marking a significant milestone in recognising non-religious pastoral support within healthcare.

Lindsay holds a PhD in Psychology from Middlesex University, where her research focused on the lived experiences of non-religious chaplains working within faith-based healthcare chaplaincy teams.

Her leadership roles include Head of Spiritual and Pastoral Care at Sheffield Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust and Network Manager for the Non-Religious Pastoral Support Network with Humanists UK. She is now European Operational Director for Existential Care and the author of Humanist Chaplaincy in Practice (Routledge, 2026), the first global textbook on humanist chaplaincy. She is passionate about fostering relational safety and person-centred care.

35. Lindsay de Wal on Redefining Chaplaincy & the Rise of non-religious Pastoral Care in the NHS